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Taking a swipe at the opposition, Union Home Minister Amit Shah said their abusive language targeting the PM Narendra Modi is weakening democracy’s roots
Union Home Minister Amit Shah (R) spoke to Network18 Group Editor-in-Chief Rahul Joshi on the occasion of PM Narendra Modi’s 75th birthday. (Image: News18)
In a wide-ranging interview with Network18 Group Editor-in-Chief Rahul Joshi, Union Home Minister Amit Shah spoke about Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s leadership on the occasion of his 75th birthday, his personal relationship with the “most popular leader in the world”, his mega reforms like the new GST regime, and his tough decisions on India’s security and sovereignty.
Taking a swipe at the opposition, Shah said their abusive language targeting the Prime Minister is weakening democracy’s roots and will only backfire on them during elections.
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Here is a full transcript of the interview:
Amit ji, thank you very much for giving this interview to Network18. I’ve interviewed you many times before, but this interview is a little different. Just two days ago, our popular Prime Minister celebrated his 75th birthday. It struck me then – who knows the Prime Minister better than you?
Of course, many people know him.
But you have been associated with him for four and a half decades. So I thought this was the perfect occasion for ‘Modi ki baat, Shah ke saath’. But my first question, a very natural one: when did you first meet Modi ji? What was it that drew you towards him?
My first meeting with him was at a Sangh gathering. Senior office-bearers of the Sangh had come to Ahmedabad. In preparations for that event, Modiji had come to my locality with 10 to 15 young swayamsevaks to talk about why everyone should attend, and also what the goals of the Sangh were. Modiji would speak about the objectives of the Sangh’s work with a very distinct clarity in his explanations. He offered tips to the youth on what objectives to have in mind while attending the event, as well as guidance for their future. To have such intricate planning for a programme involving 1,000 to 1,200 youngsters in a small city is a big deal. I have also worked at the grassroots level. And we saw that Narendra bhai always works with complete sincerity, and whatever he does is tied to the ultimate objective. And for that reason, he was able to achieve big results.
Many young people from my locality were involved, and they were inspired by him as well as attended the programme. Quite a few later advanced in different areas—some rose in the Sangh, others in the Vidyarthi Parishad, and yet others in the BJP.
He was skilled at reaching out to people, building connections, bringing them into the work, and through that contact and collection of effort, charting a practical path towards the ultimate goal. That left a deep impression on our young minds at the time. And as the years went by, we saw many more examples from his life of this very quality, which has made him the Narendra Modi the world sees today.
You spoke about planning. Until 1995, the Bharatiya Janata Party had never formed a full majority government in Gujarat. After that, you kept winning seven elections consistently. What was Modi ji’s role in this. How was the planning? How do you view it?
In Gujarat, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) was on number three — after the Congress and the Janata Party. Even then, we had only 11 MLAs. To imagine that such a strong government could be formed in Gujarat and continue for so many years was unthinkable at the time.
When Gujarat saw drought for two-three years, in a first, Modi ji took along small, local workers from cities, made them leaders and sent them to the villages as part of the Nyay Yatra. During the relief work, or where corruption existed under the Congress government of the time, he would expose it and take the Nyay Yatra there. Every worker would get simple, dry items from people’s homes — like sukhdi (wheat flour and jaggery sweet), old shoes, or roasted gram — that could help during relief work. They would give old shoes to labourers, distribute sukhdi and gram. In this way, he turned these issues into a campaign and expanded our work.
That is how trust in the party grew — trust in the work and sensitivity of party workers towards people. He turned politically motivated workers into people-sensitive workers, changing the very purpose of their lives. These were the two outcomes of the Nyay Yatra.
Later, when I toured the entire country as the Party President, I realised that this work was remembered in many states. I can say with certainty that, more or less everywhere, the institutionalisation of booth committees in the BJP began under Narendra Modi when he was the Organisation Secretary. For the first time, handwritten registers were maintained for booth-level members, names were listed, membership fees were recorded, and everything was verified — even audited.
I still clearly remember travelling with him during those times. My responsibility was accounts and audit. Practically, 80% districts of Gujarat started to maintain proper records of booth committees, mandal committeesand district committees. On the basis of those registers, we knew who had left the party, why they had left, and there were reviews and analysis.
This created a structured organisation in Gujarat. Those of us who had joined as youths learned from him how to build a structure for organisational work without giving a single speech. He brought people together through social movements, raised the party on the support for those movements, and then moulded it into the party’s structure. Both these tasks — mass movements and organisational structure — were carried out by Narendra Modi. And because of that, the BJP built a very strong foundation in Gujarat.
Naturally, when the vision is big and the execution is so sharp, Narendra Modi ji must also have been a tough taskmaster. Can you share an instance of that?
I can say without hesitation that there will be countless such examples with Modiji. He approaches matters with strictness, and because of that, there has often been resentment, whether when he was a minister, a chief minister, or handling organizational work. But never have I seen any personal animosity in it.
Whenever he scolded or reprimanded, there was always a reason behind it—and in that reason, there was purity, there were principles, and there was discipline. His strictness has always been for these things.
So yes, if one were to broadly analyse it, one could certainly say he is a tough taskmaster.
You have worked with him (Narendra Modi) the most. Tell us a little about that. He was an RSS pracharak – how did the RSS influence shape his thinking?
Whoever comes in contact with the RSS is certainly influenced by it, there’s no doubt. And with Narendra Modi, that influence can be clearly seen. He is a leader for whom the nation always comes first, after that the party, and after that the party worker. This principle of ‘Rashtra Pratham’ – the nation first – has guided him.
When you look at such a long period – 75 years – you can see that these are the values of the Sangh. And Modiji, through a life of long discipline, has absorbed those values. Living by them and accepting them never caused him difficulty. Once a person’s nature itself becomes like that, the work automatically follows.
Amit ji, many people say that you and Modi ji are two sides of the same coin. Tell us the secret of this partnership. What is the chemistry like?
Modi ji and the workers themselves are two sides of the same coin. In the lives of crores of workers, he has shown the path. If someone strays, he has held their hand and guided them back. He has also lifted many lives to new heights. And he has taught every worker to live according to the party’s principles, to make those principles a habit, and to shape themselves accordingly, because he himself is, first and foremost, a karyakarta.
Even after becoming Prime Minister, he has continued in the same way. How many Prime Ministers would you find who, at a party meeting, would not even step away from the dais for a break? If there is a three-day executive meeting, he sits there on the stage for all three days. You will see him throughout, alert, listening carefully, following the proceedings in full detail. From time to time, he even takes the mic to intervene.
Naturally, when your leader himself is present in this way, everyone else too has to remain fully present. Because of this, attendance and discipline at executive meetings have increased significantly.
Modi forges relationships from the heart. Even with the biggest global leaders, he has a one-on-one bond and tries to go beyond protocol to build that relationship – whether it’s Trump, or Netanyahu, or Putin. And even if these friendships turn bitter, he manages to win them over. How would you describe this quality?
Whenever any leader works with complete focus for his country, protocol does not matter. To achieve the goal, to take the nation higher, whatever needs to be done, he does it. There’s no science to this.
If you keep aside your ego, if you don’t make it about yourself, then everything becomes natural. I’ve seen how he speaks with party workers from the lowest rung – inspiring them, scolding them when needed. And with the biggest world leaders, too, I’ve seen him behave the same way because the objective is for the party and nation to function in the best way possible.
When it comes to international relations as well, he has built this clarity and trust and has always used these friendships with international leaders for India’s benefit. There have been a number of extraordinary decisions that may not have been, otherwise, achieved through foreign policy and all in the interest of the nation.
The 2014 victory — the BJP’s victory and Modi ji becoming the Prime Minister — was historic in itself. Through you, I want to ask: You were given a huge responsibility in that election, especially you had to deliver Uttar Pradesh for the Bharatiya Janata Party. How did you handle that and how did Modi ji guide you?
Across the country, there was both anger and hatred against the Congress. At the same time, Modi ji’s long tenure as the Chief Minister of 12 years had created what came to be known as the Gujarat Model, which the whole country found attractive. Modi ji’s qualities were seen as answers to the shortcomings clearly visible under the Congress rule. That created a mass appeal for Narendra Modi ji. In Uttar Pradesh, my responsibility was to set the organisation in order and to convert that popularity into votes that enter the ballot box. In Uttar Pradesh, my job was to convince people to rise above castes and imprint the pattern of voting for the interests of the nation on their minds. I think the BJP succeeded in doing this. We built the belief that Modi ji can change the nation, that the nation can change and for it to change, Uttar Pradesh has to change. We built trust that Modi ji can change Uttar Pradesh. We were able to create a new pattern of voting above caste identities for the sake of Uttar Pradesh and the nation.
For that, we worked on repairing the organisation at every level, from the booth upwards. Our focus was on Modi ji’s popularity and the hopes people had from him. We created a machinery to harness that hope and convert it into votes, which led to the positive results.
On one side, Modi ji is such a popular leader, with a great rapport even with global leaders. But opposition leaders like Rahul Gandhi and Mamata Banerjee constantly abuse him, insult him in every possible way. How do you see this? Some even call him a Maut ka Saudagar…
It is unfortunate that politics is being dragged down from the level of principles to personal attacks, using such language. I do not believe this will strengthen our democratic system. In fact, such low-level politics is like a termite in democracy—it eats away at the very roots.
Through your programme, I want to appeal to the people of the country: those who use such language, who encourage such politics, should be punished by the people. If any person engages in corrupt conduct, that is not a private matter—it is a public matter, and it is the duty of the opposition to expose corruption. But because they cannot find corruption, they resort to baseless talk, abusive words, and, as you mentioned, even making remarks about Modi ji’s mother; this will not strengthen our democratic politics. I want to tell the citizens of the country: such people should indeed be punished in elections.
Parliament is the country’s biggest panchayat for debate between the ruling side and opposition based on their specific views and principles on national issues. There is no bigger forum for such discussions. If, from the first day you try to disrupt Parliament, including whenever Vande Mataram is chanted, and then claim you were not allowed to speak. You walk out even when given time by the Speaker to speak, waste time making political jibes, instead of discussing issues, don’t follow the rules of Parliament, and claim that you were not allowed to speak, then Parliament cannot function in a freestyle manner.
Parliament runs by rules, since the time of Rahul Gandhi’s great-grandfather and his grandmother. And the ideal MP is someone who is able to properly put forward his or her views within that very framework. Anyway, my words may not have much effect, but I must tell the people of the country this: Modi ji has always insisted on upholding the multi-party parliamentary democratic system, ensuring parliamentary purity and discipline. And at some point, the people of this country will have to decide—should Parliament’s time be wasted on political theatrics, or should it be used for fruitful discussions that lead to decisions in the interest of the people? Be it matters of security, prosperity, employment, industrial policy, cooperative policy, or welfare of crores of poor—should these be the issues that are debated, or should there be just political invectives?
And I find all this surprising. We ourselves were in the opposition for ten years. At first, we would protest for a day or two to highlight issues, but then we would debate them. And if even after debate the government still did not agree, we approached courts, demanded inquiries or investigations. In many cases, the courts did set up inquiries based on our appeals, and the opposition gripes about that even today. They don’t want to go anywhere or debate in constitutional forums. They want to remain on the streets, and I suppose that is why the people have kept them on the streets.
In your party’s 11 years of government, there have been many achievements. I want to talk about a few of them since we don’t have time for all of it. Tell us about the abrogation of Article 370. How did it happen? How was it made possible? What was Modi’s role in it?
The whole world knows how it happened. As for why it was done, our party has opposed Article 370 since its creation. The first chairman of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh, Syama Prasad Mookerjee’s whole life was dedicated to removing Article 370. Until now, neither did the BJP have the required majority nor was there a firm decision to do away with it.
When Modi ji became Prime Minister for the second time with two-thirds majority, he acted to remove Article 370 within the first part of his tenure. But I believe that, in his 11 years of governance, to secure the nation, to curb terrorism, and to send out a message to the world that Kashmir belongs to India, this step by Narendra Modi was important. People will remember this for a long time to come.
There have been many reforms, but I want to talk a little about the economic reforms under Modi ji. Recently, there has been Goods and Services Tax (GST) 2, the rationalisation of GST. That’s a major reform. There has also been a cut in income tax rates. In the Budget, corporate tax rates were cut — a big reform. What was Modi ji’s vision and thinking behind these reforms?
See, I’ll come to the recent GST reforms in a moment. The discussion around GST has been happening since the time of the Congress government, even when Shri Chidambaram was the Finance Minister, and when Shri Pranab Mukherjee was the Finance Minister. The Congress is trying to mislead by saying it was their idea. Fine, if it was your idea, why was it never implemented? Every time, they would say the states objected. What were the states objecting to? The citizens of this country need to know what it was.
Everyone knew that with GST, states’ resources would face a shortfall, so states were then demanding guarantees from the Centre. The Congress never gave those guarantees and never created a consensus, which is why GST was never implemented.
When Narendra Modi ji became the Prime Minister, he gave a Constitutional guarantee that states’ revenue growth rate would be nearly double with tax collections. He made a Constitutional promise and fulfilled it. Almost all states will get the payment by November. States came on board because the Centre gave a guarantee and fulfilled it.
With GST, 16 different types of taxes — octroi, excise, sales, entertainment tax, and many others — were merged into one nationwide electronic sales tax system. E-way bills were introduced. Over the years, more than 200 small changes were made to smoothen the system and resolve teething problems. As this continued, the nation’s income grew, going from Rs 80,000 crore to Rs 2 lakh crore.
Now, because of this, the trust of the states, of the people, and of traders has increased. With higher income, the government was able to reduce taxes further on more than 395 items. Many daily-use items were placed in the 0% or 5% tax bracket. Essential sectors such as exports were given scientific GST. Sectors such as health, agriculture, and employment were given tax relief. Such a major tax relief was never seen before. This has benefited farm-related items, women, people’s health expenditures, insurance has become more affordable, and even two-wheelers and four-wheelers saw tax cuts. All this came through GST reforms.
I believe these reforms have greatly increased public trust. People see that if they pay the tax and increase the government’s revenue, the government will pass on the benefits through tax cuts, which in turn strengthens faith in governance. It was invisible since independence, but is now visible for the first time. When any government says that if you pay taxes, we will reduce them, it will boost investment. With increased trust, the market will grow, production activity will increase, exports and income will rise. It is a multi-dimensional reform, benefiting multiple sectors. I believe this will be remembered as one of the biggest reforms to date.
In the last 11 years, you’ve had to face difficult situations and even make some tough decisions – be it the Balakot airstrikes, or the most recent Operation Sindoor. What message is Modi sending out to the world with this?
I’ll talk about Operation Sindoor and Balakot later. But the toughest circumstance we faced – in which, I believe, India was the most successful under Modi ji’s leadership – was the coronavirus pandemic. Today, the whole world accepts that India’s Covid management was the best.
When you analyse the reasons behind this, it is clear that in many countries, it was the government’s fight against coronavirus but, in India, central and state governments as well as the public fought the virus together. And to boost morale, Modi ji had to face a lot of criticism for his methods. Some said banging plates won’t stop coronavirus, others said lighting lamps won’t help, there were those who said what will come of enforcing a public curfew. But these measures helped each and every Indian to create a mindset to unitedly fight the virus. And then to be the first to form the vaccination team and encourage it at every stage; using technology, we vaccinated 1.4 billion people (140 crore) along with issuing receipts for it, was a massive task. When the second wave of coronavirus hit, there was a shortage of oxygen in the country; we managed to procure it from around the world and supplied it across the country to those who needed it. Everyone saw and praised that effort worldwide. To mobilise the country’s entire system, from Parliament to panchayats, and take 1.4 billion people together in that fight – that, I believe, is a major leadership success and Modi ji deserves full credit for it.
When it comes to surgical strikes and Operation Sindoor and Operation Mahadev, this is the BJP’s commitment that our government has a zero-tolerance policy against terrorism and, under Modi ji’s leadership, this is not an empty slogan but a policy. And whenever needed, we’ve been seen strictly following this policy. There have been major terror attacks before as well – like 9/11 Mumbai – but India never responded. We’ve not disrupted the country’s progress by declaring any big war, but have always given a tough response to send out the message not to take India’s borders, its army, and its citizens lightly or you will be punished for it. And Operation Sindoor, the way we struck the terror targets, the whole world was left in awe of India’s action, and that cannot happen without determination.
Amit ji, you have great interest in history. I have a question — Nehru ji, Indira ji, and Modi ji are among the longest-serving Prime Ministers of this country. How would you compare Modi ji with Nehru and Indira ji? How do you see that?
Modi ji has changed both the size and the scale of the country’s economy. He transformed the political slogan of ‘garibi hatao’ into reality on the ground.
To bring 25 crore people out of poverty is a huge thing. To give 60 crore people toilets, electricity, cooking gas cylinders in households, 5 kg of food grains per person per month for free, providing treatment up to Rs 5 lakh, delivering clean drinking water to homes. In 11 years, raising the standard of living of 60 crore people, for which they have been waiting for generations, is a major achievement.
Modernising the armed forces, making the country secure, realising the dream of Make in India, moving the nation from eleventh place to the fourth place in the global economy, to fix a goal for 2047 to make India a great nation, with the highest position in the world, to awaken such resolve in 140 crore people is a great achievement. History will analyse this, but I believe no Indian PM has managed such feats in a decade. I may have missed many things, be it the education policy, or implanting spine in foreign policy, Modi ji has increased the pride that every citizen feels and made their heads higher.
Does he remind you of any other leader?
If we talk of achievements, most have come in Modi ji’s time.
We have also brought out a coffee table book that you unveiled today. Thank you very much for that and for joining with us today.
Namaskar.
About the Author
The News Desk is a team of passionate editors and writers who break and analyse the most important events unfolding in India and abroad. From live updates to exclusive reports to in-depth explainers, the Desk d…Read More
The News Desk is a team of passionate editors and writers who break and analyse the most important events unfolding in India and abroad. From live updates to exclusive reports to in-depth explainers, the Desk d… Read More
September 19, 2025, 22:57 IST
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